cinema cinematranslation: Fariba Jamour, text by Todd Gilchrist;
In an interview with Variety, Tim Burton talked about changing the “Batman” movies and how “Beatle Joyce” saved him from retirement after “Dumbo”.
Of all the accolades and accolades he’s garnered in his more than 40-year career, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame isn’t what Tim Burton was hoping for. His reaction to this news was accompanied by the mischief and fear that led to his films selling 20 billion worldwide, the filmmaker who was always considered an outsider is now recognized as an insider.
“I remember, before I knew what they were, I thought they were tombstones,” Burton tells Variety. I grew up in California where all tombstones are flat, so that’s why I confused it with that. But I soon realized that Desi Arnaz and John Wayne were not buried under Hollywood Boulevard.”
Michael Keaton says that their acquaintance in “Beatle Joyce” immediately showed not only Burton’s special personality, but also emphasized the compromise between the two. “It wasn’t easy to convey this idea, but his passion and persistence were clear.” Keaton: “That creative process, driven by the team’s vision, was one of the most fun and rewarding experiences I’ve ever had. “He sees the world in a way that’s hard to explain, but when it all comes together, it’s brilliant.”
As they reunited for Beetlejuice, Keaton said Burton’s unique vision as a storyteller is what he brought to Hollywood. “It’s recognition of Tim’s unique artistic vision and his contributions to the industry,” he says.
“When Burton cast me as Batman, despite the skepticism of others, it showed his commitment to his vision – that’s just one example of his integrity as an artist,” he says. Receiving the star is a testament to the influence he had on cinema and the creativity he brought to cinema.”
When you started making movies, did you know you didn’t belong in this space?
I had a weird time growing up at Disney, where I was a really bad animator, but I could draw different things, and I found my way in a very weird way. When I made my first film, I had made a few short films, but I didn’t know anything, so I didn’t know how to be afraid of anything.
How naturally did your aesthetic as a filmmaker manifest itself?
Everything was personal, even things that were not made by me, I always found something personal in them. It’s the only reason I can do anything.
“Batman” was a dramatic change for superhero movies. How much were your natural instincts challenged by studio pressure?
I was lucky because the word “franchise” didn’t exist then. So “Batman” was considered a bit experimental at the time… of imagination [یک فیلم ابرقهرمانی] deviated So you didn’t hear that kind of feedback from the studio, and being in England, it was even more removed. We really just have to focus on the movie and not think about what’s going to happen later.
You’ve always had this amazing ability to combine ideas that seemed dangerous, but never felt unsafe in executing them..
You know, I never felt like I was taking advantage of corporate or studio funds. But it also felt kind of pure because I wasn’t really a proper filmmaker, so I just did things that felt like me. It seemed that was why they wanted me. It’s always been a funny struggle, where they both want you and they don’t. But initially, I don’t think, and still to some extent, they don’t really know what I do, so they can’t really comment on it.
“Batman Returns” was the first movie where you completely got rid of the budget or the studio. How much did its special features reflect your creativity?
It was the second for me. I wasn’t really into the sequel, but I loved The Penguin and Catwoman, so I was re-energized by the whole thing. And that’s when we heard the franchise word, “Black stuff come out of a penguin’s mouth?” It was the first time that cold wind and such things hit my head.
Your unmade adaptation of ‘Superman’ starring Nicolas Cage has reached legendary status. What lessons from those projects have you been able to apply to the projects you’ve actually built?
It’s all a surprise, because there’s always this Jason and the Argonauts-style journey that everyone goes through to make a movie. I’ve worked on a few films that didn’t happen after years of working on them, and they became traumas. I just try to focus on the things I feel strongly about and get rid of all the noise around them.
At a time when Sam Raimi and others are returning to the genre, could you be persuaded to make a superhero movie again?
I say no for now. Like I said, I approach things from different perspectives, so I never say no to anything. But, right now, it’s not something I’m interested in.
In “Ed Wood” there was a perfect harmony between the subject and the filmmaker. Although the film is a comedy, do you consider it your first serious film?
I felt a lot of connection with this character, his enthusiasm as an artist, where you think you’re making Star Wars, but you’re making Plan 9 from Space – that double-edged sword of enthusiasm versus reality. And his relationship with Bela Lugosi reminded me of the feeling I had with Vincent Price. So there were a lot of elements to it that felt—not just biographical. I had a deep connection with it.
Early in your career, you cultivated a strong team to work with several times. How difficult was it to identify people with whom to share a creative relationship?
I would like to work with people again and show different sides of myself. And even people I’ve only worked with once have had great experiences, so I’m very happy. The only person who wanted to beat me was Jack Palance in Batman.
I feel like he wanted to beat up a lot of people.
I was new, I was scared, I didn’t know what to do, so I was nervous. But fortunately, it had a good result.
“Batman Returns”, “Ed Wood” and “Mars Attacks!” They all destroy the traditions of Hollywood. Was this an idea that you consciously thought about at the time?
In fact, you can say that after Ed Wood, I became Ed Wood. At that time I was in a strange place – about everything. In America, everything was very contradictory. It was a strange time when we parked tanks in front of the Congress building. We got to do things that you can’t do in filmmaking anymore. So for me, it was a great experience. Like I said, turning into Ed Wood isn’t so bad.
Aside from Ed Wood, when you started out, were there people on the fringes of the film industry that you identified with?
Many, but Ray Harryhausen. He inspired me since childhood. The animation was different and always of high quality. So I will always recognize him as a true artist and someone who was an inspiration.
“Big Fish” has a lovely maturity. Were you trying to make it big with that movie?
My father had died a year before. I didn’t have a close relationship with him, but it really hit me hard and I read this story shortly after that happened. I know for a fact that if I had read it sooner, I don’t think I would have made it. You go through different life experiences and therefore gain more knowledge about things, and they can be decisive in your artistic choices.
When did you realize that “Bretonesque” was a style that people were looking for?
I was delighted when you said this. Because I never really see it that way myself. That’s why I’m like a vampire: I don’t have any mirrors at home. No, I was joking. (Laughs) I don’t see myself in that situation, but I think for some people it’s a compliment and for others it’s an insult. So it depends on the person saying it and why.
Whether it’s a compliment or a put-down, if a studio came to you and said, “We want that Burton magic,” would you check it out?
Well, I’m getting older, when they say we want it, I’m like, “Really?” Because I’ve had moments where they said they wanted it, but really didn’t. And this is a funny story that you experience throughout your life. But now I just focus on the things I want to do and am passionate about.
Disney, where you got your start as an animator, has often been home to film projects throughout your career. I read somewhere that you don’t think you can work with Disney again.
I’ve had my ups and downs at Disney. The first time I was there as an animator and designer, even at that point it went through maybe three different periods. Each course came in with its own issues, so it’s almost like you’re dealing with a different studio each time. But I remember I had a desk behind which I looked out the window: I could see the hospital where I was born and then I could see the cemetery where my parents were buried. It was like a strange Bermuda triangle that started a long time ago. And then all my ups and downs with it – pulling my wisdom teeth and bleeding out in the hallways at Disney and drawing deformed foxes in all the different movies I’ve worked on. Now I just feel like a teenager whose time has come to leave home.
How much does this perception of Disney reflect your view of the larger industry?
The 80s was an animation building designed for all artists. In 1986, I was the last artist to be there because they threw all the artists out and put them in a warehouse in Glendale. I saw this transfer of things a long time ago. I don’t like it but it is what it is.
How was your experience revisiting the world of Beetlejuice?
It’s not like Big Fish, but I don’t think I could have done it sooner because I had no idea how to make a sequel. But it was good to revisit it, because Lydia was a character I always really liked. What will happen to people after 35 years? where do they go And what happened to the Dietz family? What is your journey as you transition from a cool teenager to an adult? And then with all these people I love working with – Michael Keaton and Catherine O’Hara and Winona Ryder – it’s been so weird but beautiful. And with new actors, it had a new feeling. And I never watched the original again, mostly because I never knew why it was so successful.
The five years between Dumbo and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice might be the longest gap you’ve ever spent between making a movie..
During the time of Covid, a change happened, everything was changing. And so, instead of getting involved, I just worked on my feelings. Then “Venezdi” came. It reconnected me to making. We went to Romania and felt that the health camp was innovative. It went very well.
How much did that series revive your creativity? How eager are you to proceed?
To be honest, after Dumbo, I didn’t really know. I thought this could really be it. I could retire or become… well, I wouldn’t be an animator anymore, that’s it. (Laughs) But it re-energized me. A lot of times, when you get into Hollywood, you try to be responsible with what you’re doing with the budget and everything, but sometimes you can get a little lost. It reinforced for me the feeling that it is important to do what I want to do, because then everyone benefits.
Do people come to your house?
I’m far away where no one is around, so no one knocks on my door. But I’ve been through enough of this already. I remember Batman didn’t get the green light until Beetlejuice came out. So, as they say “we have friends”, later you will see how much they really like you.
Variety / August 22